Submission Training
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I’ve just finished Kushiel’s Justice which if you have read the Kushiel’s Legacy Series you will want to pick this up. I’ve been waiting for 5 months for it come out in paperback and the day finally came. I love it and was doubly excited to see that there is a finally book coming soon (June 14 in hard cover)! I love the fantasy that has BDSM undertones in it and it’s so sexually hot and adventurous. Very good read.
But now I have a quandary I’d like to put to the readers. What other books should I read? What have you loved that you think I would too? I’d like any suggestions as I’m out of reading material. I’m really enjoying BDSM fiction so if you have anything in that vein you’d like to suggest I’m all ears!
Master and I are making a trip down to Des Moines tomorrow to attend the local munch. It’s been nearly a year since we were there last and I worry that I’ve forgotten their names. I hope that it’s not an uncomfortable thing between us. It’s quite a drive and we are going there and back in the same day so hopefully I can get the sleep I need for the drive.
Since Master’s thought about having the blog requirement removed from my rules I’ve been thinking about what else I’d write here or what sorts of things you’d be wanting to learn about that you think I’m good at conveying in words. I’ve never really geared this blog to what the readers want to read, but I’d be willing to see what you’d be interested in if I added more to what I write here.
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Thank you to everyone who participated in the Thursday Question this week on forcing your partner to do something they wouldn’t do. It was an interesting question.
I don’t know if I’d really count it as topping from the bottom, because I think it goes behind just trying to steer the scene the direction you want. This could be coercion and force behind making someone do something they are against. I’m going to remain general about what sorts of things could be considered in this category mainly because what I may think is true, may not be for someone else.
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Rich’s kari asks if Submission can be trained into someone in her blog this week. I had to give it some thought but this is what I said.
I know you can train a person to be submissive but there has to be ground to stand on first. Does the person have a tendency to serve or be submissive? Then they can learn to be more submissive.
It took me a long time for me to be able to say that I am submissive. I have a lot of nature and nurture that contradicted it. I’m firstborn, thus making naturally dominant personality. I was abused as a child and instead of recoiling I took a stand and started punching back, thus making me aggressive. I took on managerial positions because I feel comfortable working that way.
But when I found BDSM I found that I felt at peace with myself when I was submissive. I loved it. My Master said he saw this in me and wanted to cultivate it. It’s not really be training to be submissive as it has been rewiring what I learned and how I have always behaved. It takes personal change. No one can do it for you.
I do not know about becoming a slave once you are submissive. I don’t know if this is just a natural progression that someone could move into that mindset, which I believe to be wholly different. I do believe that slaves and submissives are different as if they are on different steps of a ladder. Whether it is a step up or a step down depends on your point of view.
What do you think?
–luna
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The really basic and unattractive answer is yes, you can make almost anyone be submissive or slave. Even if they don’t have a submissive tendency in their body. All it takes is making the consequences of non-submission greater than the “reward” of fighting it. Think of forced labor, concentration camps, prisons, forced prostitution. *Anyone* can be forced into submitting to a stronger (or more powerful) person’s demands.
That same principle can hold true in bdsm. Discipline and punishment is an intregral part of many couple’s relationships, mine included. The concept is the same - make the consequence greater than the reward of disobedience. While it may not be a choice of obey or die, as in those other examples, it is a matter of being trained to submit(obey) or be harshly punished.
Some couple’s may only have the choice of submit or leave the relationship. Or submit or face the Dom’s disappointment (don’t we all love that)- but they are all training techniques.
In the case of a consensual PE relationship that is very far removed from prisons and concentration camps, and perhaps doesn’t operate under the formal aspects of corporal punishment, the teaching is a little trickier and would, I would think, depend on there being some natural tendency to be submissive. At that point, I would think the only teachings that can be done would be pertinent to the present dominant only. He/she could be “taught” what specific acts or service would please the teacher(Dom), but as soon as there would be a transfer of expectations (ie. a different Dom), the teaching would have to start anew. Just think about how often we “argue” over the differences in our relationships, trying desperately to find some common ground to relate to each other. It’s near impossible because we are all “taught” differently by our respective dominants.
Maybe. I dunno. I babble when I’m alone.
I kind of waffle on the whole slave to submissive thing. Sometimes I’m pretty convinced that one either has the mindset to become a slave with the right owner in guidance, or does not no matter what. Other times, I’m not so sure. When everyone doesn’t agree on the definition of slave or submissive, it’s pretty difficult to decide anything with any certainty, yanno?
kayas last blog post..Major suckage
[Reply]
kari reply on May 2, 2008 2:22 pm:
I know you didn’t reply on my entry, but I’m glad I saw this, as your response gave me some more things to think about.
[Reply]
kaya reply on May 2, 2008 3:55 pm:
I was going to cut and paste it to you, but then I figured that you’d probably be over and see it anyway. Good topic, Kari!
kayas last blog post..Major suckage
[Reply]
kari reply on May 3, 2008 12:26 am:
I am glad that you read it, as I know that your journal isn’t on livejournal, so I don’t know who you read.
Some of what kaya is describing is known as “Cognitive Dissonance”.
The theory (for those with large brains) is: “Cognitive dissonance is a theory of human motivation that asserts that it is psychologically uncomfortable to hold contradictory cognitions. The theory is that dissonance, being unpleasant, motivates a person to change his cognition, attitude, or behavior.”
For those of us with average sized cerbral cortex’s, those with lesser power are infuenced by those who hold greater power in order to balance the dissonance (instance of such inconsistency or disagreement).
Stockholm Syndrome in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker is a higher form of Cognitive Dissonance.
So to end the lecture and get the “frak” off the soap box, yeah, anyone can be made to submit whenever there is an imbalance of power.
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